[Jon]

Hi guys. For the past several mths my 2 litre with IVT has pinged under load.
This is when it does it most.
I can be stopped or going slow say 40 kph. I floor it, now as it approaches and does the stepped gear change it will ping for a about 3 seconds. It will do this everytime it approaches and does that gear change. It wont do it driving normal where it feels like no gear change, only when pushed and goes through the stepped changes.
I have tried other fuel brands, higher octane, no difference. No codes showed at the dealership and they said it didn't do it for them. Funny that it does it everytime for me and did on the drive home.
Window closed you won't hear it. Window open and listen and its unmistakable pinging. They probably didn't open the window.
I also when window is open and floor it get a big exhaust smell come through the window, rich exhaust smell too.
Anyone else hear this with theirs?

 

[Xcalibur255]

Modern engines all have knock detection sensors that will retard engine ignition timing if they detect ping. You would definitely get a check engine light if this sensor was malfunctioning too. The fact that it's repeatable at a specific RPM makes me think the problem might be an under hood component that is vibrating and sensitive to the harmonics present at that specific RPM. Possibly something that is routed incorrectly or missing a clamp meant to secure it and is touching another part that it is not supposed to be touching. These kinds of issues can be difficult to locate. Best of luck with it.

 

[Jon]

Modern engines all have knock detection sensors that will retard engine ignition timing if they detect ping. You would definitely get a check engine light if this sensor was malfunctioning too. The fact that it's repeatable at a specific RPM makes me think the problem might be an under hood component that is vibrating and sensitive to the harmonics present at that specific RPM. Possibly something that is routed incorrectly or missing a clamp meant to secure it and is touching another part that it is not supposed to be touching. These kinds of issues can be difficult to locate. Best of luck with it.

Hi. Thanks for the reply. I used to tune all my families cars and my friends years ago when it was all distributor and carby days. It is 100% that old fizzle ping sound. I know that numerous modern components can play up or have a voltage issue just under the range of sensing, hence show now error codes. I had a Nissan Xtrail that had cruise control issues, no codes would show, yet it turned out to have a faulty sensor under the break pedal that caused it. I whilst looking for this issue with mine found a similar issue show up somewhere I read with the Kia Forte. I have little faith in the modern codes system diagnosing problems, they only seem to pick up total fails not partial on numerous things.
Thanks again.

 

[Xcalibur255]

Sounds like a good first step would be to replace the engine knock sensors to rule out their being out of spec. You might get lucky and get a dealer service manager who's willing to do it on good faith without jumping through a million hoops. I hope it works out in the end, good luck!

 

[Jon]

Sounds like a good first step would be to replace the engine knock sensors to rule out their being out of spec. You might get lucky and get a dealer service manager who's willing to do it on good faith without jumping through a million hoops. I hope it works out in the end, good luck!

Hi. Im going to see one in a couple of weeks time. And this time make sure I am in the car with the person who test drives it. Its annoying having a car with just 17,000 km on the clock doing this. To be honest my Seltos is glitch ridden.

 

[Jon]

Seltos is booked in for the week after next. Got a guy there to test drive it, he confirmed it had the pinging. But said it was normal for modern cars to do so when they have a variety of drive modes. That it was my driving style choosing different modes, that the computer was slow to catch up. Nothing can really be done about it.
Imm thinking, mmm, really. So to be sure I kept it in Normal mode for 2 weeks and hammered it often. Its still pinging like mad.
So I contacted KIA Aus. After telling them what I was told they contacted the dealer and told them to find the reason its doing what it is. Guess its not considered normal by KIA, just lazy service people. The guy who drove it didn't even bother to record id taken it in and he confirmed the pinging, I even asked him to do that. When I booked it in for this I was told they had no record of it coming in and being test driven.

 

[Xcalibur255]

But said it was normal for modern cars to do so when they have a variety of drive modes.

That guy's blowing smoke up your rear. There is no car I know of whose drive modes affect or impact spark advance/timing. Your engine computer is setting the timing wrong or is adjusting fuel/air mix wrong and an out of spec sensor is by far the most likely cuprit for such behavior. The voltage is probably off just enough to cause an issue but not enough to trigger a code. They just don't want to do the work to find it because this sort of problem can be a bit of a chore to track down. Without a code to go off you have to test the various sensors that can affect this directly.

 

[Jon]

That guy's blowing smoke up your rear. There is no car I know of whose drive modes affect or impact spark advance/timing. Your engine computer is setting the timing wrong or is adjusting fuel/air mix wrong and an out of spec sensor is by far the most likely cuprit for such behavior. The voltage is probably off just enough to cause an issue but not enough to trigger a code. They just don't want to do the work to find it because this sort of problem can be a bit of a chore to track down. Without a code to go off you have to test the various sensors that can affect this directly.

Yeah, laziness. No code, no problem seems to be the modern day motto with them. Hopefully they do their job this time.

 

[Jon]

Ok. Its done.
My Seltos was with them for 2 days.
They went over everything.
In the end they reprogrammed the Fuel Values. That's what they said they did.
Pinging is gone and its like iv gained power. It drives completely different. Plant the foot and its smooth power all through the stepped gear changes.
You gotta ask why not do that from the start instead of having me drive to them 3 times and hundreds of kilometres there and back.
But, im happy, I can now plant the foot, no pings, and its so smooth going through the gear changes.
Its like im driving a different car now.
Hey, anyone gets the same thing pings like mine had, show them this.

 

[Old Car Nut]

Ok. Its done.
My Seltos was with them for 2 days.
They went over everything.
In the end they reprogrammed the Fuel Values. That's what they said they did.
Pinging is gone and its like iv gained power. It drives completely different. Plant the foot and its smooth power all through the stepped gear changes.
You gotta ask why not do that from the start instead of having me drive to them 3 times and hundreds of kilometres there and back.
But, im happy, I can now plant the foot, no pings, and its so smooth going through the gear changes.
Its like im driving a different car now.
Hey, anyone gets the same thing pings like mine had, show them this.

They probably cleared the values in the long term fuel trim. LTFT are more permanent alterations to engine operating conditions to accommodate things like your local fuel quality. It's unlikely they reprogrammed anything since the engine was emissions certified with the stock engine programming and any alteration of that would be illegal. Clearing the LTFT is a pretty standard thing to do so I'm surprised if this was what they did, that they didn't do it right away.

 

[Jon]

They probably cleared the values in the long term fuel trim. LTFT are more permanent alterations to engine operating conditions to accommodate things like your local fuel quality. It's unlikely they reprogrammed anything since the engine was emissions certified with the stock engine programming and any alteration of that would be illegal. Clearing the LTFT is a pretty standard thing to do so I'm surprised if this was what they did, that they didn't do it right away.

Yeah, if it was that easy why let me drive around like that for months and only bother after I contacted Kia Aus to complain. Pure laziness. They're all useless where I am, Kia, Ford, Toyota. No matter the brand, they all use the same framework for how they operate the dealerships. Carbon copies of each other.
Cheers.

 

[Old Car Nut]

Yeah, if it was that easy why let me drive around like that for months and only bother after I contacted Kia Aus to complain. Pure laziness. They're all useless where I am, Kia, Ford, Toyota. No matter the brand, they all use the same framework for how they operate the dealerships. Carbon copies of each other.
Cheers.

I agree with you about the dealerships. I've used independent repair shops for everything not warranty related for probably the past 20 years and have relationships with these shops where I know I'll get good service.

In years past, LTFTs could be cleared by anyone by disconnecting the battery for a half hour or so. Shops with a dedicated diagnostic tool could plug in and do it immediately. I'm no mechanic but I know that this is one of the first steps in diagnosing your problem. It basically sets your engine control back to its new car state.

Hope your fix is permanent!

 

[Jon]

I agree with you about the dealerships. I've used independent repair shops for everything not warranty related for probably the past 20 years and have relationships with these shops where I know I'll get good service.

In years past, LTFTs could be cleared by anyone by disconnecting the battery for a half hour or so. Shops with a dedicated diagnostic tool could plug in and do it immediately. I'm no mechanic but I know that this is one of the first steps in diagnosing your problem. It basically sets your engine control back to its new car state.

Hope your fix is permanent!

Short lived. Its Pinging its head off again. Going to contact Australia Kia again and tell them what utter rubbish this thing is.
I hate this this Lemon piece of crap. We were supposed to have the Lemon law implemented here a few yrs ago. Alas our Govt is marshmallow weak and useless. This is a lemon. Pings, knocks, ratlles.
I now loathe driving it.

 

[Old Car Nut]

Very sorry to hear that. If it were an out-of-vehicle warranty, I'd suggest you try disconnecting the battery to clear long term fuel trims and see if that helps, but with a vehicle under warranty, I think you're on the right course by pursuing a lemon law return.

 

[Xcalibur255]

I would suggest you push hard with your dealer's service manager to pull and test all the engine sensors. If the computer is reverting back to bad fuel trim maps and bad timing advance this quickly it may be because of bad input data.

 

[Jon]

Hi and thanks for the replies. We were supposed to have had the "Lemon Law" implemted here a few yrs ago. Alas our Govt and authorities let us down. I see in the US class actions work. Here nothing. I had a Toyota Rav 4 that had the ecu destroy the transmission. In the US I saw there was compensation. Here we got nothing.
I recently was in contact with a person who had a Rio with the 2 litre engine like mine. He had the Ping issues exactly like mine. After 12 mths his engine failed. He spent a fair bit off time pursuing it with our ACCC and finally got a full refund on the Rio. Im thinking my engine is in the same group now. There was an issue with incorrectly heated piston rings in Kias here in the Rios and Seltos. Supposedly mine was built 1 month after the issue. But whats 1 month!? Mine probably, built during the mad Covid issues in Korea, got one of them. Im expecting engine failure like the guy I know with his Rio.
Everything his did, mine does.
Such is life. I got a lemon.
Cheers guys, will let you know how it goes.